6 years ago we were suicidal together... and now..
Enlightenment Lost(friend who shall remain nameless) enlightenment lost?
Lavarn
(me) yes
Lavarn reference to me screwing up a couple weeks ago and getting high
Enlightenment Lost doh...
Lavarn yeah :(
Lavarn not too tragic
Enlightenment Lost you went to a party or something?
Lavarn Went to a club
Lavarn got drunk
Lavarn left early way tossed
Lavarn came home and raided my roomate's stash
Enlightenment Lost is this the same older guy?
Lavarn immediately felt bad about it and proceeded to ride my bike 80 miles to work it off
Lavarn yeah
Enlightenment Lost I see, did you tell him?
Lavarn immediately since I went out with him and he was worried
Enlightenment Lost he wasn't mad or anything?
Lavarn no not really... Kirk's sweet.
Lavarn It wasn't a great tragedy
Lavarn Just a reminder of certain aspects of my addictive nature.... and some phychological issues as well
Enlightenment Lost so do you think it was caused by the fact that you were drunk?
Lavarn well
Lavarn it's complicated
Enlightenment Lost ok...well, the weaker claim
Enlightenment Lost do you think you would have not done it if you were not drunk?
Lavarn I (unlike you) haven't given up on the idea and acutally constanstly pursue social fulfillment
Lavarn well
Lavarn definitely
Lavarn alcohol leads addicts back to their drug of choice
Lavarn I learned that long, long ago
Lavarn but forgot that night
Enlightenment Lost makes sense
Enlightenment Lost but...you don't think that the alcohol was the problem?
Lavarn Alcohol has a tendency to bring forth a lot of emotion
Enlightenment Lost tian says I should drink for that reason
Lavarn because you're too fucked up to repress sadness, it pours
Lavarn There's no benefit to it, though. You don't think about it and learn, you just cry
Lavarn or whatever other emotion comes out
Enlightenment Lost right...so it doesn't bring out only good emotions
Lavarn no
Lavarn For me I'm reminded of some fundamental phycholocal problems.... sexual anxiety making relationships possible and etc
Enlightenment Lost it's one of these cases where you know not doing it is better, but you still do it because you can't logically carry out the best decision
Enlightenment Lost (for the getting high, that is)
Lavarn when I'm drunk, you mean?
Lavarn yeah
Enlightenment Lost well...even when you are not drunk, sometimes, right?
Enlightenment Lost that's the whole addict thing...
Lavarn when I'm drunk there's no logic/reasoning operating at all
Lavarn the addict thing is complicated
Enlightenment Lost so you do it because it makes you feel good at the time
Lavarn not that simple.... In retrospect I can explain exactly what happened....
Lavarn Lack of social fulfilment/frustration with psychological issues that bother me on a daily basis made put me in a dangerous "fuck it I don't care I'm gonna enjoy myself regardless" mindset
Enlightenment Lost hmm
Enlightenment Lost it's definitely a temporary enjoyment kind of thing
Enlightenment Lost since obviously you do not enjoy it in the long run
Lavarn yeah....
Lavarn and it points to a general failure on my part in the pursuit of happiness...
Lavarn though it's not entirely my fault
Lavarn a chemical imbalance has probably always been there... but I made it worse
Lavarn a lot of it stems from sexual issues... childhood stuff
Lavarn not sure why I feel compelled to vent all this but... ahh well
Enlightenment Lost chemical imbalance - in terms of what makes you happy or in terms of your ability to pursue what makes you happy
Lavarn hmm
Enlightenment Lost happiness can be different for different people we agreed on that
Lavarn the best way to describe it is that I have all the means of living a happy life... of enjoying myself every day
Lavarn (self-confidence, friends, family, hobbies, etc)
Lavarn but for no reason at all my mood is so unstable and more often than not shitty that I don't utilize those means
Enlightenment Lost well, if you aren't happy, you can't argue with that
Enlightenment Lost but even if you do everything right there are still downswings where you will feel bad (but only temporarily)
Lavarn the temporary downswings are extremely bad... turn my cell phone off, contact no one for 2-3 days and so on
Lavarn I dunno
Lavarn in any case I need to stop putting off having myself evaluated
Enlightenment Lost it has always been unclear to me whether life is even worth living...ever since the "normal setting theory" :)
Lavarn well
Enlightenment Lost it seems like no matter what you do, there are times when you will feel good, and other times when you will feel bad
Lavarn right the premise was that random life events will cause moments of happiness/sadness
Lavarn and at all other times's you'll return to "normal"
Lavarn which is inherently unpleasant
Lavarn or something like that
Enlightenment Lost I wouldn't say "normal" is inherently unpleasent...
Enlightenment Lost but it isn't pleasent either...it's right in the middle
Lavarn that doesn't apply to everyone, though
Lavarn just fucked up people like us :)
Lavarn for most people, there are moments of happiness/sadness but the setting most often experienced is pleasant
Enlightenment Lost that is the accepted or conveyed view
Enlightenment Lost but I wonder if it is really true
Enlightenment Lost you could imagine the situation where everyone feels like shit
Enlightenment Lost but they all think that they will feel better if they try to convey that they feel good
Lavarn but that's not the case... just based on observation. Count the amount of laughter, the number of smiles you encounter every day. Haven't you ever found yourself wondering how certain people you encounter every day are as happy as they appear to be?
Enlightenment Lost yup...all the time
Lavarn People who have "normal" lives
Enlightenment Lost but...I can't rule out the plausible explanation that they are faking it
Lavarn why is that plausible?
Enlightenment Lost I go around trying to pretend that I feel better than I really do
Enlightenment Lost I bet people think that I feel great
Enlightenment Lost the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence right? :)
Lavarn well
Lavarn it's an established fact that people who grow up in a certain "normal" environment (two parents, no sexual trama, no emotional trama, etc) grow up with what you would call a happier "normal setting.
Lavarn these people socialize normally
Lavarn have sex normally
Lavarn and easily obtain all the things you and I would agree are reliable sources of happiness
Lavarn friends
Lavarn family
Lavarn success
Enlightenment Lost maybe they are happier
Enlightenment Lost but it is really difficult to know I think
Lavarn you can tell when the smiles are genuine
Lavarn when someone's truly a happy person
Enlightenment Lost I agree that it is sometimes clear when someone is enjoying themselves
Enlightenment Lost but I would say that's just temporary happiness
Enlightenment Lost they are doing an activity that they genuinely like
Lavarn right
Enlightenment Lost but...then when they have to stop and go back to work or something
Lavarn there are individual activities that cause happiness
Enlightenment Lost but I do that too
Enlightenment Lost I'm no different from them in that respect
Lavarn and then there are reliable sources one uses for one's entire life
Lavarn and all of those involve healthy social/sexual contact with other people
Lavarn How happy I am on a daily basis has everything to do with how enjoyable my social contact with the people around me on that day is.
Lavarn My fondest memories of days I was extremely happy involve time spent with you or Kevin
Enlightenment Lost so you enjoy social contact
Lavarn or with other friends/family
Lavarn I don't think this is just a tendency I have
Enlightenment Lost but the key idea of the normal setting theory is that
Lavarn and I've said this to you many times....
Enlightenment Lost say there are two different possible lives
Lavarn you reject the idea that happiness MUST come from social contact
Lavarn which is wrong
Enlightenment Lost 1. a life where you have a lot of social contact with people every day 2. a life where you never (or rarely) have social contact with anyone
Enlightenment Lost and the idea of the normal setting theory is that in the long run, your happiness for these two lives are the same
Lavarn so what you're saying is socializing isn't a reliable source of happiness? That spending time along improving your poker skills or whatever would make you smile/laugh more than joking around or doing whatever else with friends?
Enlightenment Lost hmm...well
Lavarn that if think back to some of your happiest moments
Enlightenment Lost in my normal setting theory, which I'm not sure how much is actually true or I agree with
Lavarn there are an equal number of solitary moments than ones with friends/family?
Enlightenment Lost it doesn't matter what I do...
Enlightenment Lost I think that if you are alone all the time, the chance to talk with someone is a temporary source of happiness
Enlightenment Lost and conversely, if you are talking with people all the time, the chance to be alone for a bit is a temporary source of happiness
Lavarn to say that it doesn't matter what you do (be with people or be alone), you're simply admitting to social anxiety
Lavarn which you didn't need to do (I already knew that)
Enlightenment Lost as to social anxiety
Enlightenment Lost that's avoiding social contact because of the temporarily bad effects that would happen because of it
Lavarn I think this theory is simply a justification for your social anxiety
Enlightenment Lost haha
Enlightenment Lost I suppose it's possible
Lavarn something to consider anyway
Enlightenment Lost I have thought about that
Enlightenment Lost it's actually interesting
Lavarn (clothing in dryer BRB)
Enlightenment Lost a lot of times when I am feeling terrible, I think to myself that if I had lived a life with more social contact, I wouldn't be feeling this way
Enlightenment Lost but then there eventually come times where I feel great, and I tell myself how proud I am for not living a life of social contact
Enlightenment Lost and of course, my life has a lot of inevitable social contact anyway...but probably less than the average person
Lavarn much less
Lavarn but that'll change when you're employed
Lavarn Which you're how close to being, BTW?
Enlightenment Lost not that close :)